Part I of this series showed that the spirits we are to test are the ideas, words, and teachings of men. Part II of this series showed that the Bible never teaches the idea of an end of ALL time, nor an end of the world, cosmos destroying event. That idea is false, and does not originate from God’s word.
Therefore, all of the theologies that have been built around the concept of one end-of-the-world judgment day are all derived from the imaginations of men, and are all false and must be discarded. Any of the commentaries that build upon this false concept are also false, and must be weeded out. Any of the books that include this false concept, such as the Book of Enoch must also be discarded.
Testing the spirits requires strict discipline to abide only within God’s word. It requires that we do not read into the text any preconceived ideas of our own. And, as there are so many preconceived ideas we have all been taught through traditional institutional churches, this is a very hard thing to overcome.
There are questions that we must now ask to be able to come back to what God said. As “the end” spoken of in the Bible is not speaking about the end of all time, nor the end of the physical cosmos, then when was Daniel to stand in his lot?
“But go thou thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days.” (Dan. 12:13, KJV)
“And thou, go on to the end, then thou dost rest, and dost stand in thy lot at the end of the days.'” (Dan. 12:13, YLT)
“But you, go your way until the end comes. Then you will rest and rise for your reward, at the end of days.” (Dan. 12:13, CJB)
Remembering from Part II that we always have to ask “the end of what?,” then this verse cannot stand on its own. It is part of the prophesy that began in Dan. chap. 9 when Gabriel came to answer Daniel’s prayer. Daniel had been asking when the 70 years would be finished for their return from Babylon to rebuild Jerusalem as he had found in the books of Jeremiah 25:12 and 29:10.
But, Daniel made an assumption that the return from Babylon would be the end of the desolations of Jerusalem. And, he expressed his prayer with that assumption.
“15 “Now, Adonai our God, who brought your people out of the land of Egypt with a strong hand, thereby winning renown for yourself, as is the case today — we sinned, we acted wickedly. 16 Adonai, in keeping with all your justice, please allow your anger and fury to be turned away from your city Yerushalayim, your holy mountain; because it is due to our sins and the wrongdoings of our ancestors that Yerushalayim and your people have become objects of scorn among everyone around us. 17 Therefore, our God, listen to the prayer and pleadings of your servant; and cause your face to shine on your desolated sanctuary, for your own sake. 18 My God, turn your ear, and hear; open your eyes and see how desolated we are, as well as the city which bears your name. For we plead with you not because of our own righteousness, but because of your compassion. 19 Adonai, hear! Adonai, forgive! Adonai, pay attention, and don’t delay action — for your own sake, my God, because your city and your people bear your name!”“ (Dan. 9:15-20, CJB)
From the beginning of the chapter, Daniel was assuming that the return to Jerusalem after the 70 years would be the end of the transgressions and the end of the desolations of Jerusalem.
Gabriel’s opening statement is by way of correcting Daniel’s assumption – not 70 years Daniel, but 70 sevens of years – because God was answering the actual question Daniel had asked for the end of the desolations of Jerusalem.
“`Seventy weeks are determined for thy people, and for thy holy city, to shut up the transgression, and to seal up sins, and to cover iniquity, and to bring in righteousness age-during, and to seal up vision and prophet, and to anoint the holy of holies.” (Dan. 9:24, YLT)
The backdrop is the prophesy from Jeremiah for the 70 years. The word “weeks” is Strong’s Heb 7620 “shabua”, a period of sevens. It can be translated as weeks, or years, or days. (Source: https://biblehub.com/hebrew/7620.htm) So the context has to rule, and in this prophesy it is 70 sevens of years, or 490 years.
Without going through the entirety of this prophesy (1) (2), then when were the end of the days of Dan. 12:13 going to be? At the end of the 490 years that were specified at the beginning of the prophesy in Dan. 9:24.
The “end of days”, or the “end of the days” of this prophesy was the end of the 490 years that were given for the end of the transgressions, and the end of the desolations of Daniel’s people and Daniel’s holy city, Jerusalem.
The end of the desolations of Jerusalem was not the return from Babylon at the end of the 70 years, but the fall of that temple in Jerusalem at the hands of the Romans in AD 70. That was when Christ came in judgment, his second appearance in that generation (Heb. 9:28) for the deliverance of His saints out of the hands of the tyrants of the Sanhedrin and the Romans who had crucified Him.
The kingdom was coming, and would be fully implemented when that temple fell. Matt. chap. 25 is part of the prophesy of Matt. 24 for the fall of the Jerusalem temple. That was also when He told His disciples that He would open the gates of the grave (Hades / Sheol) and separate out all of the “nations,” the sheep to His right and the goats to His left (Matt. 25:31-33). Christ had the keys (Rev. 1:18). The grave (Hades) would not prevail against His church.
That means that as His church, His assembly of all those who are in Christ is in existence today, and has been since the day of Pentecost in approx. AD 30-31, then the grave (Hades/Hell) did not prevail.
“`And I also say to thee, that thou art a rock, and upon this rock I will build my assembly, and gates of Hades shall not prevail against it;” (Matt. 16:18, YLT)
Prevail – Strong’s Gr. 2729 “katischuo” – to overcome, to overpower, to be stronger than. (Source: https://biblehub.com/greek/2729.htm)
The grave is not holding any of God’s people any more, and has not since that temple fell in AD 70. That is when Daniel stood in his lot, when all of those in the grave were taken out, the righteous to be taken home to heaven, and the wicked to be cast out. (Matt. 8:12; 22:13; 25:30).
The end of those days of the 490 years was the fall of that temple in Jerusalem in AD 70, and the end of the Mosaic sacrificial covenant. At that time, Daniel stood in his lot, in his order, when all of those righteous who had died from the generations before were gathered into heaven from Adam, to Abraham, to Isaac, to Moses, to Elijah, to Samuel, to Ezekiel, and on.
“and as it is laid up to men once to die, and after this — judgment,” (Heb. 9:27, YLT)
The judgment of each man and woman happens at their death, as it always has (Luke 16:19-31). This pattern has not changed (3). The place of the holding of the dead – the prison of the grave – has changed. Christ opened that prison, that holding place, took everyone out of it (Matt. 25:31-46) and then threw it into the lake of fire after the temple fell in AD 70 (Rev. 20:14).
As Daniel has already stood in his lot at the resurrection out of Hades in AD 70, and as the grave has already been destroyed, then there is no future resurrection from Hades / Hell. It has already been done (4).
Today, as each of us dies, those who are clothed in Jesus’ righteousness are gathered into heaven (1 Thess. 4;17). The wicked who refuse(d) Christ’s salvation sacrifice are cast out into the mist of darkness (2 Pet. 2:17). Judgment is an hourly and daily on-going process (Rev. 14:13) that is part of Christ’s priestly rule at the right hand of the Father (Heb. 7: 22-26). Therefore, there is no future end-of-time, final day of judgment.
Please be clothed in Christ’s righteousness (Rom. 13:14; Col. 3:9-12). Be immersed (baptized) in water, going under and rising back up, buried into His sacrifice and His resurrection for the forgiveness of your sins (Mark 16:16; Acts 2:38; Rom. 6:3; Gal. 3:27).
We only have this moment in time in this realm. We are not guaranteed tomorrow in this flesh (Luke 13:4) . Once our fleshly body dies, our opportunity to answer His call closes (Heb. 9:27). We must be ready to meet our Savior at any moment. (5) (6) (7)
See these previous posts at the right margin for the supporting scriptures:
1) Daniel and The End Times (https://shreddingtheveil.org/2017/05/09/daniel-and-the-end-times/)
2) Seventy Weeks of Daniel Chap. 9 (https://shreddingtheveil.org/2015/09/09/seventy-weeks-of-daniel-chap-9/)
3) The Gathering of The Elect (https://shreddingtheveil.org/2017/07/30/the-gathering-of-the-elect/)
4) The Signs of Revelation – Part VI: Judgment Day, Chapter 20 (https://shreddingtheveil.org/2017/03/23/the-signs-of-revelation-part-vi-the-judgment-day-chapter-20/)
5) Crossing Over (https://shreddingtheveil.org/2019/05/25/crossing-over/)
6) Lies of the Roman Catholic Church – Part III: Baptism is NOT Sprinkling (https://shreddingtheveil.org/2015/08/13/lies-of-the-roman-catholic-church-part-iii-baptism-is-not-sprinking/)
7) The Thief on The Cross (https://shreddingtheveil.org/2019/01/23/the-thief-on-the-cross/)
8) Do You Need to Be Baptized to Be Saved? (https://shreddingtheveil.org/2016/11/05/do-you-need-to-be-baptized-to-be-saved/)
28 thoughts on “Testing The Spirits – Part III: Daniel’s Lot”
Thanks for that information. Especially the information regarding Isaiah 14:12 being about the king of Babylon. That explains a lot. Sorry to take things in this direction. The subject of demons existing today, in the New Jerusalem was worth discussing.
I have a question about Revelation 20:10. It says the Devil was thrown into the lake of fire? As a full preterist, does this mean the Devil no longer exists?
Yes, Christ won the victory. We must keep the NT scriptures in the proper time and place in the 1st century AD. Christ defeated “satan” or the “devil” at the cross and when that temple was thrown down in the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70.
What we deal with today are wicked people. We need to put the full blame upon their shoulders b/c everyone saying that demons are in control of this world gives the wicked ones an excuse that they are not really responsible for their evil deeds. The Hebrew word for “satan” means an adversary. It is not a proper name. It is a role function. Any one who stands against you is an adversary, & those who stand against Christ are many adversaries. The Greek word “diablo” or devil means false accuser, & there are many false acusers in every generation. Give them the full blame for their actions.
So if I understand you, before Christ conquered death on the cross, there really were demons in this world. Scripture points to examples of demon possession. But after Christ rose from the grave, there are no longer demons operating in this world. Am I understanding this correctly? I consider myself a full preterist. So I believe this was all fulfilled in the 1st Century. But this particular issue troubles me. So in a nutshell, demon possession would never occur today, because they were conquered in the 1st Century. Remember Jesus driving the demons into the herd of pigs….demons are nonexistent today?
I am currently of that opinion. I believe that God allowed the demons to operate during his earthly manifestation in order to show Christ’s full dominion over them and the grave. But after Christ’s victory they were all destroyed, cast out with the wicked goats (Matt. 25).
Let me clarify… he cast all the demons out at the same time he separated out all those in the grave, which was after the destruction of the temple at Yom Kippur, 10th of Tishri, AD 70.
I appreciate the responses. More than any other element of prophecy, this is the one that has puzzled me lately. So when Christ stated, “Depart from me, you cursed. Into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.” It would be your understanding that the devil and his angels were cast into the eternal fire in the 1st century?
Yes. Done and done. We stand before Christ now either covered by His blood sacrifice, or uncovered, and it is our choice.
Thank you again for these responses. I’ve been introducing my family to full preterism and they’ve begun to take interest in it. The other day my mom asked me if demons still prowl the Earth or were they destroyed in 70 A.D also…..I stumbled on that one. I believe as a full preterist, the devil and his angels must have been vanquished in the 1st Century, but articulating it was a challenge. The past few days I mulled over this issue to the point of considering a return to “partial-preterism.”
Christ finished everything in that generation of His death, burial & resurrection. We can know it b/c He told His disciples that ALL those things would be done (Matt. 24:34) which included the separation out of the grave /Sheol / Hades and throwing Hades into His fire. Partial preterism maintains that He still has to finish the work, and still denies His very word to His disciples. I have to believe what He said, and as He fulfilled the spring feast days with His death, burial and resurrection, then He also fulfilled the fall feast days of judgment, the marriage ceremony (Feast of Trumpets), the cleansing of the camp for the New heavenly Jerusalem (Yom Kippur), and the everlasting kingdom of the Feast of Nations (Succot) at His second appearance in that generation (Heb 9:27). If He didn’t do as He said that He would, then He failed in His word to His disciples, and I will not accuse Him of deceiving them. So I put my whole faith in Him and in His word. He did what He said He was going to do and fulfilled ALL of the OT prophesy for His everlasting kingdom.
You mentioned that “satan” means adversary, and “devil” means false accuser. Do you also believe those terms were used in the sense of a proper name? For example, when Christ said, “If Satan drives out Satan, he is divided against himself.” Also when he said, “Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the Devil and his angels.” In both of these cases, it comes off as a reference to a specific being, and not just a generalized term for “adversary” or “false accuser”.
Now, getting to Revelation 20:10 where it states “The Devil was thrown into the lake of fire.” Is this being used as a common name, or a proper name? It seems to be a reference to a specific being, the Devil. At least that is how I take it.
I am still struggling with the concept of the Earth no longer being inhabited by demons. Maybe that struggle is the result of what I have been taught my whole life that demons exist on Earth. This is the only struggle I am having with the full-preterist view at the moment. I believe it is quite clear that Christ returned in 70 A.D.. The time statements for the fulfillment of all things point to 70 A.D. But is it possible to be a full-preterist and still believe that demons inhabit this Earth today? Or does a belief in demons on Earth today necessarily make me a partial-preterist?
No, it doesn’t make you a partial preterist. It is just another area where scriptures are misused. Most people don’t know where and how this demonology , fallen angel teaching got started. The Jews brought back some of their Chaldean captors’ beliefs when they returned from Babylon and interwove those ideas into their beliefs about the OT. In short, they inferred a lot of strange ideas from one word, or one scripture of the OT, taking much out of context & made up stories that have no basis in God’s word. Some of these writings began in the 1st & 2nd cent. BC and especially after the temple fell in the 1st and 2nd cent. AD as they invented even more of their twisted beliefs that have become modern day Judaism. For instance, the belief that has evolved about Isa. 14:12ff referring to “Lucifer” as the fallen angel from heaven is completely false b/c they made it up and took it out of context. God was talking about and to the king of Babylon. We can see this especially in Isa. 14:16.
“They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;” and in vs. 18-19 where he is compared to the other kings of other nations.
“18 All the kings of the nations, even all of them, lie in glory, every one in his own house. 19 But thou art cast out of thy grave…”
Jerome invented the name “Lucifer” when translating from the Greek and Hebrew texts b/c he didn’t know what the Hebrew “helel” meant. There is no such thing as a being named Lucifer. This is how all of the fallen angel teaching has become so prevalent and so twisted. I have not written much about this stuff b/c I wanted to focus on one much misunderstood teaching about the lie of futurist prophesy which denies Christ’s words. But, there is a lot of misunderstood scripture that causes a lot of confusion. You can look a little further at some of the origin of Kabbalism here: https://www.thejc.com/judaism/books/the-origins-of-kabbalah-1.6753.
Furthermore, the capitalization of the words Satan and Devil are from English translators who wove their own biases into the text. These are roles, job functions, not proper names. We do not say “the Joe”, or “the Bill”, or “the Mark”. But we do say “the doctor”, “the District Attorney”, and “the President”. Who ever has those roles is playing that part. So, which adversary, and which false accuser? The Sanhedrin council in Jerusalem were adversaries of Christ in the first cent. AD. They and their “messengers” (angels) were roaming around like a roaring lion (predator beast) seeking who they might devour. It is difficult b/c we are not told where that original adversary (satan) or devil came from. He just appears in Gen. 3. I can’t answer that question about who he was or where he came from b/c God has not told us. It may be that God considers the who and the what to be incidental, or above our pay level. What he did was the important thing. He stood against God (adversary) and he called a God a liar (false accuser). And, that is what Peter did for one moment in time when Peter stood against Jesus (adversary) and denied Christ’s words (an accuser) basically saying that Jesus made a false statement, or lied. Every generation has people who stand against God as adversaries, and calls God’s word to be lies (false accuser).
What is your understanding of the individual named Satan in the book of Job? This encounter involving the sons of God and Satan, almost reads like a scene from a Greek myth.
Stand by, please. Posts coming that may help.
I like the way Bruce Gore presents the lesson. I’m looking forward to watching more of his videos. I just watched video #10. The Preterist approach to Revelation. I agreed with everything he said until he wrapped up the video at the end. It confuses me. He indicated that the 1,000 year reign represents the continual growth of the Church throughout history, culminating with the Great White Throne judgement at the end of history. I take that to mean perhaps Bruce is a partial-preterist. Maybe I’m not hearing him right. I would think a full-preterist would believe the 1,000 year reign and White Throne Judgement already happened in the 1st Century. I find myself waffling back and forth between partial-preterism and full preterism.
Yes, Bruce is partial preterist as he believes that there is a final judgment day & a world-ending destruction. He’s not allowing God’s word to rule. He’s still clinging to Catholic / Presbyterian creeds. But over all he is presenting a good background history of the way the ppl taught Rev throughout the centuries.
Ok. I got that impression that Bruce is a partial-preterist. You are correct that he does a very good job presenting the background history. I’m still reading your site over. It’s a lot to take in. Even though I waffle between partial and full preterism, my gut instinct is that full preterism is more accurate. The problem I’m encountering is with the 1,000 year reign and the white throne judgement in particular. The basic problem is like this….almost all of the figurative, symbolic, and metaphoric language in Revelation is fairly straightforward. Almost always there is a 1st century person or a 1st century city that I can attach this figurative language to. For example the Beast of the Sea = 1st Century Rome. That is something concrete in 1st Century history that we can point to. The white throne judgement on the other hand, is where full preterists have a much tougher task. I say this because it is an event that we can’t really point to in the 1st
Century in concrete terms like the seven emperors of Rome or the Harlot riding the beast. These are figurative terms with definite historical characters we can attach them to. The dispensationalists have no answer to that, other than to just ignore the argument. But if I try to sell the white throne judgement to them as 1st Century, it is a more difficult task because I can’t really point to an event in 1st Century history like I can with the overwhelming majority of Revelation.
The wars took place on the physical earth of Judea under the ancient Roman empire. Secular history can be checked to confirm. But, throne scene and the separation out of Hades took place in the spiritual realm. Secular history is not going to know this. We only know it from God’s word. Jesus told us when. Parable of Matt. 22:1-14 is the short precis of both Matt. 24 – 25, and of Revelation. Judgment scene is at the wedding feast after the city was burned. The battle scene of Rev. 19 – Jerusalem destroyed & burned – Matt. 22: 7. Rev. 20:1-10 more of the battle of the great city – Jerusalem – after which the judgment scene / throne scene occurs – Matt. 22:11-13 & Matt. 25:31-34 at the wedding feast. Rev. 21 1-3 the bride adorned for her husband – the wedding feast which took place after Jerusalem was burned.
So we believe what Jesus said, and what the prophesies told us but which our eyes have not seen.
I haven’t studied the early Church very thoroughly. Immediately after 70 A.D., let’s say the first 100 years after 70 A.D, did the Christian church as a whole understand that Christ was not going to return bodily to Earth? Did the Church at that time understand that His coming was the destruction of Jerusalem in the 1st Century?
Paul, yes, the Christians did understand it. The Jews OTH redefined their religion around the 1,000 year milennium political kingship theology that they had expected of “their messiah”. Even Augustine knew that Revelation was written under the reign of Nero about events that had already taken place in the 1st century at the destruction of the temple. I recommend a series another reader passed to me re: Bruce Gore’s Apocalypse in Space and Time. You can find on YT, the last of his play lists. Mr. Gore explores the history of the eschatological beliefs and teachings held for the last 2,000 years. Very enlightening. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTqxCTu2OjM&list=PLYFBLkHop2anlJ9wrDXdhugr95AJ3dMKA
Thank you very much
So when Jesus says, “Depart from me, ye cursed into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels” what is this fire He is talking about? These souls are being sent to the same destination as the devil. I’m still struggling to see this as anything other than a state of eternal consciousness in torment.
“everlasting fire”… It is the fire that is everlasting, not the person or entity thrown into it. And, there is the distinct possibility that “fire” is the metaphor for God’s judgment, so everlasting judgment. Once God pronounces the sentence and judgment it will not be undone. So, it is an everlasting judgment. Only God’s children are promised everlasting life.
That was a very good read. It seems like a major critique that “partial-preterists” have of “full-preterism” is that full-preterism doesn’t explain how or when the human race and planet Earth will come to an end. I don’t know why that is such a sticking point. It’s clear the Revelation is speaking about the end of the age as meaning something totally different than the end of the cosmos.
Also, am I understanding it correctly that hell/hades/sheol are basically synonyms for the place of the dead? Christians today generally understand hell as the place of eternal punishment, the lake of fire. But hell no longer exists and was cast into the lake of fire, correct? The lake of fire is not hell, but Gehenna, correct?
Also, as an off topic question. It is common for christians to view Jews today as following the same God as we do. However, Jews deny the divinity of Jesus. Essential they must believe that Jesus was either a deceiver or He was mentally unstable. So how can Jews believe in the same God as we do, when they deny Christ? Should we consider Jews in the same category as Hindus, for example, in the sense that they are not in the body of Christ? I’m curious if you believe Jews today believe in the same God as christians, since Jews believe in the voracity of the Old Testament.
Thank you. Hell, Gehenna referred to the place of continual burning in the valley of Hinnom just south of Jerusalem where the child sacrifices took place to Moloch. Hades / Sheol was the realm of the dead, sometimes referred to as the grave. I don’t think we are given enough information to really discuss eternal punishment, as “forever” in the scriptures is used in different ways sometimes meaning a long lifetime, other times many generations, or long years. The only ones who are promised eternal life are those who are in Christ. So, I am leaving the punishment of the wicked up to God. However, the scriptures are clear that those wicked are to be cast out.
My post on the Lake of Fire from Rev. 20 proposes that it is a process, rather than a place. The first death is that of the carnal body. The second death, the place of sentencing and judgment, as “fire” is the metaphor for God’s judgment. Please read that post to see all of the details I have drawn out. So many want the wicked to be punished for their evil deeds and we do rightly want to be avenged for the wrongs done us, but I am content to leave that in God’s hands. If he decides that certain wicked ppl should endure special punishment, well, then so be it. But the end result according to the scriptures is being cast out into darkness where there is no light. As Jesus is the Light of the World, then the mist of darkness is the complete absence of God.
There are Messianic Jews, those who claim a blood line to Abraham – even though most of us have that DNA blood line connection b/c of the Assyrian and Babylonian, and Jerusalem dispersions – that do believe Christ is the Messiah. But, many of them have the same confusion over a futurist expectation of Revelation and a “2nd” coming, which really would be a 3rd or 4th or 5th coming as all of His judgments are “comings of the Lord”. I believe the Messianic Jews are at least worshiping the Son of God. The other “Jews” who claim to be Jews but really are not and who deny Christ, may say they believe the OT Torah, but as they are denying Christ as the promised Messiah which all of the prophesies foretold, then how much of Torah do they really believe. So, no, they do not know the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, nor do they worship Him as they deny His very Word. They twist and misapply God’s word for their own political agenda.
I’m surprised to read your response above regarding eternal punishment. You seemed uncertain as to that side of judgement upon a person’s earthly demise.
Matt 25:41 and Matt 25:46 Jesus talks about everlasting punishment and everlasting fire.
Eternal punishment – destruction of the soul is an eternal consequence is it not? The casting out of the soul is an eternal event, isn’t it? The conscious state of torment that most ppl think of as eternal punishment would imply an eternal existence of some form of life in that punishment which contradicts the promise of eternal life to those who are in Christ. Once God has handed down His judgment against the wicked souls at their deaths, that judgment is an eternal sentence, whether it is complete annihilation of the soul as some think of the Him who can destroy both body and soul, or whether that judgment sentence is the mist of darkness? Consider that the judgment is an eternal nature.