The English word “resurrection” does not appear in the Old Testament of the King James Version of the Bible, though the concept does. In the New Testament of the KJV the Greek meaning for “resurrection” is simply a raising up (Strong’s Greek 386 – “anastasis”). For the purposes of this essay we will use the meaning for “resurrection” from the text as follows:
“So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:“ (1st Cor 15:42)
In Psalm 2:6-7, in speaking of Christ the prophet announced:
“Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion. I will declare the decree: the Lord hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.” * (KJV)
What day? The Apostle Paul gives us the answer many years later in a speech in the Synagogue in Antioch recorded in Acts 13.
“And when they had fulfilled all that was written of him, they took him down from the tree, and laid him in a sepulchre. But God raised him from the dead: And he was seen many days of them which came up with him from Galilee to Jerusalem, who are his witnesses unto the people. And we declare unto you glad tidings, how that the promise which was made unto the fathers, God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee. “ (Acts 13:29-33)
The conclusion is obvious — Christ was begotten the day He was resurrected!
But, we know that Christ is from everlasting to everlasting, without beginning and without end. However, “begotten” implies new life or origin. Resolving the difficulty, Dr. Hugo McCord explains that “begotten” is used here symbolically to mark the new life Christ obtained with His coronation as King of Kings and Lord of Lords and His ordination as High Priest after the order of Melchizedek (Zech 6:13). One might say a change of status. (See source here)
Further, no one preceded Christ in the resurrection from the dead.
“And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.” (Col 1:18, see also Psa 89:27 and Rev 1:5)
Therefore no one was resurrected before Christ. The resurrection of Christ was part one.
So, where were all the dead?
Now among the Jews the sect of the Pharisees believed in the resurrection and angels and spirits, whereas the sect of the Sadducees did not (Acts 23:8). On one occasion the Sadducees came to Christ with a question they thought would confound Him.
“Master, Moses said, If a man die, having no children, his brother shall marry his wife, and raise up seed unto his brother. Now there were with us seven brethren: and the first, when he had married a wife, deceased, and, having no issue, left his wife unto his brother: Likewise the second also, and the third, unto the seventh. And last of all the woman died also. Therefore in the resurrection whose wife shall she be of the seven? for they all had her.
Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God. For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven. But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living. “ (Matt 22:24-32)
One wonders how the Sadducees could have missed the following scripture from Daniel.
“And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever. But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.” (Dan 12:1-4)
In this prophecy Michael refers to Christ; the time of trouble refers to the persecution under Nero and the destruction of Jerusalem that occurred in AD 70; those who sleep refers to the dead at the time of the chief resurrection from Hades; and, the time of the end refers to the end of the Mosaic covenant (Heb 8:13). Christ prophesied concerning these things (Matt 24-25).
So where were the dead waiting in the first century AD at the time Christ gave this prophesy?
They were in Hades (the unseen realm of the dead). Christ draws us a picture of Hades in Luke 16.
“And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham’s bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; And in hell (Hades) he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented. And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.“ (Luke 16:22-26)
Therefore, we see that Hades consisted in two parts separated by a gulf – Hades Paradise where the beggar was, and Hades Tartarus where the rich man was. On His death, Christ and the thief on the cross went to Hades Paradise. But, Hades could not hold our Lord! (Psa 16:9-10, Acts 2:27-31)
Neither would Hades prevail over Christians (Matt 16:18, Phil 1:23). It should be noted that all the books of the New Testament were written prior to AD 70 and the fulfillment of Daniel’s prophecy. Accordingly, for the first Christians the events of AD 70 were in their future, whereas the events of AD 70 are in our distant past.
So, we have the resurrection of the dead from Hades – the separation of the sheep and the goats – that occurred after the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70 (Matt. 25:31-46). That was resurrection part two.
Being now empty and having served its purpose, Hades was destroyed and thrown in the lake of fire (Rev 20:14).
Where does that leave the rest of us today including those who die in the Lord? (Rev 14:13) Let’s see.
“But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words.“ (1st Thess 4:13-18)
The question is when are we that remain caught up together with them to meet the Lord? The fact is that no one is resurrected unless he first die (1st Cor. 15:36). And the Apostle further explains:
“Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. O death, where is thy sting? O grave (Hades), where is thy victory? The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.” (1st Cor 15:51-56)
Two groups are discussed here – those who sleep and those who do not sleep (ie., those who already slumbered in Hades, and those who did not slumber in Hades.)
He did not say those who die and those who do not die. People are resurrected from the dead, not from the living. Both groups are changed (resurrected). Under the new covenant each individual death is followed by a resurrection (Jer 31:31).
And, that is resurrection part three which now occurs daily at the death of each soul (Heb 9:27).
Today, we are all resurrected as we pass from this mortal life to the next world. But, only those who are in Christ, who die in the Lord are counted worthy to receive eternal life in heaven and to be with all the saints that have gone before. See John 3:15; 6:54; 10:28; 17:3; Rom. 5:21; 6:23; 1 John 2:25, among many others.
When those souls die who are not covered by the blood of Christ, they will face the judgment of God according to their deeds and will be bound and cast into outer darkness (Matt. 22:13).
“It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.” (Heb. 10:31)
* The expression “only begotten” as used in the New Testament KJV is a different Greek word and means one of a kind.
Bill Fangio 8/11/2017 Rev 1 Reprinted and edited with permission. All bold emphasis is mine.
Further reference:
Original Word: ἀνάστασις, εως, ἡ
Helps Word Studies: 386 anástasis (from 303 /aná, “up, again” and 2476 /hístēmi, “to stand”) – literally, “stand up” (or “stand again”), referring to physical resurrection (of the body).
Thayer’s Greek Lexicon: Strong’s Greek 386 ἀνάστασις -1a. a raising up, rising; 2. a rising from the dead
Shredding The Veil 
Do you have any thoughts on what this verse might mean? I assume there was something relative to the prevailing culture of the day that ties in to this. I do not believe that I have seen anything in the rest of the word that supports baptism for the dead, so I am hoping that you can shed some light on what Paul was referring to in this verse. Thank you.
1 Cor 15:29 Otherwise, what will those do who are baptized for the dead? If the dead are not raised at all, why then are they baptized for them?
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Paul’s statement points out that if (else, otherwise) they did not believe in the resurrection from the dead, then why were the baptizing ppl for those who had already died. Their very practice, which is not authorized by scripture, makes their argument against resurrection (vs. 12) baseless. And, yes some were doing this. Excerpt from Ellicot’s Commentary at 1 Cor. 15:29,
” St. Chrysostom gives the following description of it:—“After a catechumen (i.e., one prepared for baptism, but not actually baptised) was dead, they hid a living man under the bed of the deceased; then coming to the bed of the dead man they spake to him, and asked whether he would receive baptism, and he making no answer, the other replied in his stead, and so they baptised the ‘living for the dead.’” Source: https://biblehub.com/commentaries/1_corinthians/15-29.htm
I don’t know of any religious system today that still follows this absurd practice of baptizing for the dead, but as there are so many absurd beliefs sprouting up I would not be surprised to hear of it.
I do wonder that you continually say “everything was finished.” What was finished was the Mosaic Covenant, the animal sacrificial temple, the Plan of Salvation through Christ’s sacrifice on the cross, and the judgment and release from Hades of the souls that had died before AD 70. But life continues on. People are born, and people die. People hear the gospel of Christ every day, and many choose to answer His call and be added to His church every day. So, the process that Christ established for salvation is an on-going process, and has not ended.
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Pingback: Biblical Hermeneutics. – Down to Earth But Heavenly Minded
Do you believe that planet Earth will come to an end? First, let me begin by acknowledging that I recognize the Bible does not speak about the end of the physical cosmos or about the end of planet Earth. I recognize that heaven and earth passing away is to be understood as the passing away of the Mosaic Covenant. The end of the age is not meant to be understood as the end of planet Earth. But…let’s get into science. I’m not a science major but I’ve learned enough in school to have an understanding that all planets and suns come to an end. Our sun, in the center of our solar system, supposedly is going to die eventually and planet Earth and all life on it will cease to exist. Do you believe that planet Earth and all life on it will expire eventually? This is a question I am not asking you to supply biblical answers to, because the Bible does not speak out the end of planet Earth. I’m just wondering, as a full-preterist, which I am, how are we to view the explanations of scientists that planet Earth will come to an end eventually? We full-preterists tend to be silent on the end of planet Earth, because the Bible does not speak on it. However, science does speak on it coming to an end. Do you accept the science on this point?
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Well, even though this is deviating from a scriptural question, I have learned throughout all of my research and Bible study that anything that contradicts God’s word is absolutely false. And, there is a great deal of today’s “science” that contradicts the Bible. The theory of evolution is false! The theory that all traditional education systems teach today about the planets and stars revolving around the sun – that heliocentric theory – is also false! The so-called “Big Bang Theory” derived by a Jesuit priest is false! That may shock you. But, I no longer trust someone wearing a white lab coat or a white frock collar or with PhD’s behind their name to know more than God does. I have learned to put my full faith and trust in God’s word over and above any “science” teaching today, as most of it is based upon atheistic beliefs, and outright rejection of an omniscient Creator.
Can you test that water will boil at 212 Dg F at sea level? Yes, you can. Can you test the times of the sun “rise” and moon “rise”? Yes you can. Can you observe the natural world around us, and the animal behaviors? Yes, you can. But, if you have not personally tested something, then you are trusting the word of men about other things. They have trained ppl today to believe that if statements are printed in a “text book” that it must be proven and tested “science”. Is it really? Or, is it just “approved” propaganda from the ppl who have gained control over the text book industry for over the last 150 years?
The controllers of the internet have been busy scrubbing many videos and web sites over the last 4-5 years, but you can check these out:
https://answersingenesis.org/evidence-against-evolution/
https://apologeticspress.org/category/creation-vs-evolution/
https://www.lppfusion.com/science/cosmic-connection/plasma-cosmology/the-growing-case-against-the-big-bang/
There are many others that you can find if you dig for them. My thoughts are 1) that God is in control of the earth and “universe” – one verse – the stars, the heavens, and the earth that He created; 2) that He is maintaining the natural processes that He created; 3) that God’s grace through Jesus’ sacrifice would be time limited if determined that the “earth” has a time limit, or that mankind has a time limi; 4) that He has set in process the grace offering open to all mankind that works on the good hearts through His word that will create the believing souls that will respond to that offer; and 5) that just as in the days of Noah’s flood God will keep His salvation process in place as long as there are those who will believe and answer that call.
He is our Creator, and our Salvation. I don’t see any benefit to ending that process, to destroying the opportunity for the re-birth of new saints to answer His call by ending the realm He created for their habitation. But, I do leave that in His hands. We are all under His control. I just don’t fear it.
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I certainly don’t believe in evolution theory, nor do I have a belief one way or the other on the big bang theory. Regarding heliocentrism, I’ve come to believe that. I also believe the Earth is a spherical shape. I would certainly disavow heliocentrism and belief in a spherical shaped Earth if you can point me to verses in the Bible that contradict those. Does the Bible make a statement about the Earth being flat or the Earth being the center of the universe?
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Yes, the Bible has many scriptures that define God’s creation. Really take a hard look at Gen. chap. 1.
” He who is sitting on the circle of the earth, And its inhabitants [are] as grasshoppers, He who is stretching out as a thin thing the heavens, And spreadeth them as a tent to dwell in.” (Isa. 40:22, YLT). Circles are 2 dimensional, not spheres. The heavens are shaped like a tent to dwell in…. the firmament of Gen. 1:6-7… the expanse (firmament/heavens) is between the waters above and the waters below (YLT).
He created the sun on the 4th day but light and darkness on the 1st day. He set the sun and the moon and the stars (luminaries) in the firmament, not above it, not outside it… but in it.
“Thou hast made an expanse with Him For the clouds — strong as a hard mirror!” (Job 37:18, YLT) The firmament is like a hard mirror? The King James has this as “a molten looking glass”. We only see sun dogs because of the reflection of the mirrored firmament. Shine a flashlight underneath a turned over glass bowl.
“…Stretching out the heavens by Myself, Spreading out the earth — …” (Isa. 44:24, YLT). Spreading out the earth is like rolling out a carpet.
Prov. 8:27, “…when he set a compass upon the face of the depth:” (KJV), or “In His decreeing a circle on the face of the deep,” (YTL) . Again, a circle is a 2 dimensional object, not a sphere.
He laid the foundations of the earth (Job 38:4-6; Psa. 102:25; Prov. 8:29) and set it upon pillars (1 Sam. 2:8) and it does not move (1 Chron. 16:30; Psa. 93:1; Psa. 96:10; Psa 104:3-5). He compassed (circled) the waters with bounds (Job 26:10) and set the boundaries of our habitation (Acts 17:26) upon the “face of the earth”. The face of something is the front side of it. Which is the front side of a sphere?
Worth the money: https://vimeo.com/ondemand/thenextlevel2022
Also recommend the short vids at DITRH here: https://www.youtube.com/c/DITRH. Several others are out there.
You might also want to watch the video of the lunar wave: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcQSP9YLXi4
Original is at Crrow777radio.com.
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Cinnamon… the people who have amassed so much wealth and concentrated power over all of this realm /world have been twisting and perverting God’s word for a very long time for their own purposes. They have turned God’s word upside down, and sideways in order to deceive and to cause fear to push people in a direction they want to control. Their goals and agendas are for ultimate rule and control over people b/c they want all the power and authority to rest with them. They cannot be the ultimate power and authority if we know that God has authority over them, too.
The main focus of this blog has been to remove the fear that they have generated about the “end of the world.” That fear has caused many people to throw up their hands and conclude that there is nothing they can do, so they might as well just sit down and give up. But, that particular fear is not the only one the controllers / evil ones have used. There are so many twisted perversions they have implemented to draw a veil over our eyes so that we relegate God’s word to a dusty library shelf. What you have asked me about is another one of them, and it is an eye opener which takes a lot of time to explore.
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Gina,
P.S. I fully agree with you as you say:
“We are His living stones, the body of His temple now!” That is absolutely true.
Also,
“Our transfer into heaven is our ultimate goal. But what is God’s ultimate goal? We are created for His glory (Isa. 43:7; Matt. 5:16; 1 Cor. 10:31).” Absolutely.
Then,
“Even at the judgment of the flood of Noah, God did not end the physical realm, but allowed for a plan for His people through the salvation sacrifice of His son. Does He throw that all away?”
Yes. He does. God exists in a realm of wonder and delight that we, as human beings, will never be able to appreciate because: “flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; **nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable**” (1 Cor. 15:50). Everything material is perishable. It has an end, and absolutely nothing that is perishable (material) can exist in the paradise of God.
Xeno
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Xeno, I am simply replying to your comments, & not posting them to the blog b/c I believe you are going beyond God’s word. I think we can both agree that God will do whatever God decides to do with His creation. It is ultimately His will which will prevail. However, you are trying to equate the two different realms into one single existence. Putting on the immortal does not mean that the perishable, mortal realm must end. Christ’s everlasting, forever kingdom is eternal and it exists with mankind in this realm in spiritual perfection NOW, during the time that we are speaking in this mortal condition, while we are yet groaning b/c the evil that coexists here (Matt. 13:25ff). Those of us who r in Christ are even now in His presence (John 14:17; Rev. 21:3).
We have God’s word so that we may KNOW His plan of salvation that is available to all mankind if they will answer His call. It is available to all who will study it so that we can learn of Him and His Son, Yeshua. That does not mean that everything that was recorded for our admonition (1 Cor. 10:11) applies to us. Do we read the account of God instructing Noah to build an ark, & think that we are to do the same? Ppl make the statement that the Bible is for every generation very lightly without thinking that Noah’s generation did not have it!
You r drawing your conclusions from a belief that you have reasoned in your own mind, & have gone beyond the word. There are not 2 different time frames in Revelation, and Peter was not speaking directly to us, but to that generation which was about to experience the ENTIRE prophesy of Revelation. Jesus told John the time was upon them (Rev. 1:1) and He repeated throughout the book. Christ ended the prophesy in chap. 22 with 5 statements that He was coming to THEM shortly. ALL of that prophesy from the 1st chap to the last chap are set within that time boundary & that includes the events in chap. 20 where the realm of the dead – Hades – and the condition of being dead – death – were thrown away.
The types and foreshadows served the purpose of bringing in the full spiritual condition of being in Christ b/c of His death for our sins. We can enjoy that presence now while we are yet in the mortal condition, and we speak with God daily in our prayers. The final feast of the Feast of Tabernacles was the end result – the Feast of Nations – also called THE Feast by the Jews as it was the most important feast of the year. It is the tabernacle state that all who are in Christ enjoy even now in this physical realm.
You want to think that God is going to destroy His process of creating His children b/c that is the traditional thinking of men. God’s thoughts are not our thoughts (Isa. 55:8-9), & your trying to tie His hands.
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Gina,
Allow me to challenge you with your assertion that the “heavens and earth” will remain (cf. 2 Pet. 3:10). I read your article “Frequent Mistakes – Part VI: The End of the World, or?”
There, you make compelling arguments. However, I would suggest that this entire material realm was created for one unique purpose: That of saving those who would freely choose to accept God’s offer. Everything in the material realm is *temporary*. However, that’s not the worst part. It is also horribly *tainted* — it groans: “For we know that the *whole creation groans and suffers* the pains of childbirth together until now.” (Rom. 8:22).
I do not believe for one second that God would perpetuate this fallen realm (yes, the “whole creation”). Why would He? We are to join Him in an eternal paradise. And, nothing short of absolute perfection will ever exist in God’s Presence. Our transient Creation will pass away just as Peter describes. And, we will see it as I try to explain below.
There’s also this: The Bible was written for *all generations*, not just the Greek or Hebrew mind of the first century. I believe it is a mistake to think otherwise. You stated the following in your article:
“The word ‘forever’ is Strong’s Heb. 5769, ‘עוֹלָם’, transliterated as ‘olam’ and is defined as long duration, antiquity, or futurity.”
This is all true — when you think of “forever” as the *entire duration of earth history*, that is, until the end of time. When time exists “olam” is indeed “a long duration, or futurity.” But, there will be an end to time, at which point the material universe of space and time will end.
————–
My entire point about our transcendence to meet Christ in the clouds is that, at the moment of our death, we are instantly (“twinkling of an eye” (1 Cor. 15:50ff.)) changed into our immortal bodies. We have stepped into the Presence of God (1 Thess. 4:17), and when we do this, *from our perspective*, so will all other saints as they cross the threshold between time and timelessness with us. That’s because there is no more “time”. This has been an incredibly difficult concept to convey to others, yet is a logical deduction based on the temporal vs. eternal.
Suppose we consider a man named Tom, who is suffering from a terminal illness. Finally, Tom expires. Does he wait in a grave for hundreds of years, contrary to Jn. 8:51 and 11:26? No. From Tom’s perspective, everything appears “normal” in that he has full control of his faculties (spirit).
*But* to Tom, every step he takes out of finite time (fractions of seconds to Tom), hundreds or thousands of years are passing on earth. Why is that? Because there is NO MORE time as we now perceive it as far as Tom is concerned. Tom is making his journey out of time to *the end of time*. At the moment that Tom arrives before God (an instant to Tom), you and I have made that same journey! (When our day arrives, we too will make the trip out of finite time to instantly meet Tom and the Lord.)
Once you understand this concept, hundreds of passages fall into place. Why would Christ and the whole of the N/T ever tell us that Christ will return unexpectedly, “as a thief in the night”? Physical death (not spiritual!) is the single constant experience everyone encounters, and virtually all do so in this fashion. Tragically, this does not occur to those who now suffer the torment of Hades. Time is the “great gulf” between Lazarus (now stepping across the threshold from our perspective) and the rich man languishing *in time* — in the Hadean realm.
I hope you are able to understand what I’m trying to communicate. Many simply cannot wrap their minds around this concept, and I certainly wouldn’t blame you either. But, I assure you, this is not some arbitrary, whimsical concoction. It has many other great implications, especially about the “block theory” or “b-theory” of time, sometimes referred to as “eternalism.”
Take care.
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Xeno, God has a harvest (Matt. 9:37; 13:39, etc). I understand what you are saying, I just disagree based upon my studies. Words in English translations convey a different concept than the original Greek and Hebrew languages. “End of the world” in the KJV is better rendered in the YLT as “end of the age”. An age is a period of time, & the particular age which was coming to an end was the Mosaic covenant age. At the end of that age, Hades was thrown in to the lake of fire, & the state or condition of being held in the prison of death – of being dead- was done away with. All those who had died before Christ’s death and resurrection were waiting in Hades; some in Paradise (Abraham’s bosom) & some in Tartarus, the place of torment (Luke 16). Christ was the one who held the keys to that prison (Rev. 1:18).
The feast days are very important to understand & were the embodiment of the plan for Christ’s comings; 1)the spring harvest feast days of Passover, Unleavened Bread,, & Pentecost – death, burial & resurrection, and 2) the fall harvest feast days of Feast of Trumpets, Day of Atonement, and Feast of Tabernacles / Booths. Christ’s second coming promised to that same generation which saw His first coming (Heb. (9:28) was at the end of the age, at the fall harvest feast days, He told His disciples that 3 things would happen: a) the destruction of the temple on the Feast of Trumpets, b) the judgment out of Hades on the Day of Atonement, & c) the tabernacling / living with God of His people from all the nations of the entire earth thereafter – Feast of Nations.
Coming as a thief in the night was the language the Jews used to refer to the Feast of Trumpets. When Christ used those words, the disciples heard “Feast of Trumpets”. The Jews also used the phrase “no man knows the day or the hour” to refer to the Feast of Trumpets.
Ever since the destruction of the temple in Jerusalem in AD 70 we have been living in the condition of the Feast of Nations. The first harvest out of Hades happened in AD 70, and then God threw Hades away (Rev. 20:13-15). Ever since, all who die in the Lord are taken up to heaven, changed in the twinkling of the eye, & we enter that eternal realm in the presence of God where time becomes irrelevant.
Why would God want to end the method of perfecting His people, of planting the seeds and growing His crop? As long as there are those who will come to God, why would He end His harvests? We are His living stones, the body of His temple now! Our transfer into heaven is our ultimate goal. But what is God’s ultimate goal? We are created for His glory (Isa. 43:7; Matt. 5:16; 1 Cor. 10:31). Even at the judgment of the flood of Noah, God did not end the physical realm, but allowed for a plan for His people through the salvation sacrifice of His son. Does He throw that all away?
This realm is a process for growing His people, and he tells us in Gen. 8:21 that He would never again curse the ground for man’s sake, nor smite every living thing as He had done. That promise has to be reconciled with the concept of the “end of the age”. “World without end, Amen” Eph. 3:21.
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Please see my answer to a related question on Quora, here:
https://www.quora.com/Is-2-Peter-3-10-12-biblical-proof-that-the-heavens-and-the-elements-will-be-no-more-on-the-last-day/answer/Bill-Ross-22
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Gina,
It seems to me that you are very much on target with your writing. I would just mention a few things that I thought might be interesting to you.
As you well know, Peter tells us that a day with the Lord is as 1,000 years and vice versa (2 Pet. 3:8). This is obviously metaphorical describing the timelessness of eternity with God.
What we should understand is that the quotes that Christ will come “as a thief in the night” are referring to our individual transcendence at physical death. At the moment we cross the threshold between finite time and timelessness, we have stepped *to the end of time*: there is no more time as far as *we* are concerned.
Since there is no more time, every saint will arrive along with us in the same eternal moment *because time as we know it no longer exists*, no longer elapses for us. Therefore, when you step across that threshold, you will discover that every saved person will be standing right there along with you — from Adam, to Abraham, to David, to Paul, to you, and to me. An analogy might be that I see you off on a flight to another city. Upon arrival, you discover that I have made the flight with you.
“The last day” (Jn. 6:40+) is *our* last day (from your perspective), but is the last day for me as well because we have arrived at the end of time – Christ’s return. Christ will actually *never* again set foot on earth: We will step into his presence “in the clouds” (Acts 1:11, 1 Thess. 4:17).
[Note that there is no judgment of the saints. If there were any, we would then be guilty and sent to Hades and ultimately, then the Lake of Fire. But this is digressing.]
The reason that no one is in heaven yet is because *we* are not there yet either. Once we are there, so will all of the faithful be. You might think of things this way: everyone who had physically passed away (“fallen asleep”) is crossing that threshold I mentioned, and with every “step” they take, hundreds, and thousands of years are elapsing on earth, while from the perspective of those who are crossing the threshold, no time is elapsing at all. Each step they take brings them closer to the end of time.
This is a very difficult concept to convey. But, this is why 2,000 years have elapsed since Christ departed. Peter told us that “in the last days mockers will come with their mocking, following after their own lusts, and saying, ‘Where is the promise of His coming?'” (2 Pet. 3:3). We naturally assume that those saved now somehow exist as bodiless, ethereal ghosts forever in search of a body, just like demons. God would never do this because this would be analogous to Hades. And, according to Paul (1 Cor. 15:51+, 1 Thess. 4:17, 2 Cor. 5:8, etc.), this is *not the case* at all.
I’ve identified over 150 passages (there are over 300) that relate the Lord’s return. Yet, somehow, He has not returned to anyone — or so we think. The reason, again, is that *we step into His presence*, not the other way around — and that is the end of time from our perspective (it’s also the actual end of time since we’ve made that journey out of finite time).
Again, this is a terribly difficult concept to convey. The reason I’m trying to relate it to you is that we seem to in agreement with many biblical concepts, like interpretations of Revelation and many others. I would personally suggest that the “go-to” Letter for end-times discussions is *1 Cor. 15*, not Revelation which, as you’ve so eloquently pointed out, was mostly fulfilled by the end of the first century.
All of this translates into another profound truth: *Christians do not consciously experience death*. That is a promise by Christ as He spoke of this in John 8:51, and 11:26. Those who believe in Him, though they will physically perish, “will never die” — by that Christ means that our minds, our consciousness never die. And, “we will be changed in the twinkling of an eye” (1 Cor. 15:51-52), that is, immediately upon physical death, we will be resurrected just all saints past, present, and future.
Just as another aside, there will be no Millennial reign of Christ on earth: that is a fantasy. Revelation 20:6 paraphrased: “Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection [baptism into Christ]; over these [Christians], the second death [spiritual death] has no power, but they [Christians] will be priests of God and of Christ [all Christians are priests and royalty: 1 Peter 2:9] and will reign with Him for a thousand years [until Christ’s return].” In Christ, we are reigning with Him now.
This is a lot to chew on. But, if you find any of this useful, I can talk to more about it with illustrations to illuminate the concepts more clearly.
Xeno
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Abstract thinking. Very cool. Time has little or no relevance for the eternal realm. But, God counts time for us earthlings in this realm. 120 years repentance time allowed before the flood; 70 years for the Babylonian captivity; 490 years to the appearance of Christ; 40 years wandering in the wilderness, etc. The 2nd appearance of Christ promised to those who saw His first appearance / manifestation was “apart from salvation” – Heb. 9:28.
IOW, Christ’s first manifestation in the physical form of a man was for the purpose of salvation. The 2nd time was for salvation from the tribulation of the Sanhedrin & the Roman army. The word “salvation” in Heb. 9:28 is better understood as deliverance out of harm’s way. Christ had already taken care of God’s plan of salvation for mankind when He was crucified. The next coming was the judgment prophesied in Matt. 24, Mark 13, Luke 21, & all of Revelation for the desolation / destruction of Jerusalem & that Mosaic temple. His 2nd appearance was promised to that same generation of the 1st cent. AD, and He kept His promise. As Christ was already ruling at the right hand of the Father after His ascension, then His 2nd appearance was not going to be another physical bodily appearance. The first manifestation was done and done.
His 2nd appearance was seen in the events that destroyed the Jerusalem temple, birthing the new heavenly Jerusalem and the new spiritual temple out of the old one on earth. The old temple had to be removed, as the old animal sacrificial replacement system – where the animals were the replacement for mankind – had been completely fulfilled by Christ’s once for all sacrifice. That old temple became obsolete (Heb. 8:13).
Pls read The Signs of the Feasts posts at this blog. The Jews had idioms, phrases which they used when speaking of that temple, and the Mosaic covenant which we miss when we are just translating individual words. Idioms carry messages apart from the actual definitions of the words. For instance, the phrase “heaven and earth” to the Jews meant two things: the contract / covenant between God (heaven) and Israel (earth), and the temple where God met with man in Jerusalem. So, when Christ said that “heaven and earth would pass away,” His disciples heard “the temple would pass away”.
Another idiom /phrase with special meaning was “no man knows the day or the hour” as the Jews referred to the Feast of Trumpets on the 1st of Tishri since the 1st day of the month had to be declared by the council before the ppl would know when to celebrate it. When Christ told His disciples in Matt. 24:34, “But of that day and hour knoweth no man…” the disciples first word association was to the Feast of Trumpets. Christ was speaking their language, and gave them the clue. The temple was going to be torn down by the 1st of Tishri.
Our resurrection from the water, being immersed into Christ puts us into eternal life and eternal redemption as long as we continue to walk with Him, and stay faithful unto death. That is why we are changed in a twinkling of an eye when our carnal bodies die. Judgment passes over us – the pass over feast (John 5:24). While we are in this earthly carnal realm we are His ambassadors, priests and kings on this earth. Once we leave this realm, & are changed into our immortal bodies for the next realm, well… what will time matter then? We will have all the time we will ever want or need to do whatever God wills us to do. And I long for that with all my heart.
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Gina,
Allow me to interject my thoughts within your response. Since I know of no other way, I’ll just surround my comments with dashes.
Abstract thinking. Very cool. Time has little or no relevance for the eternal realm. But, God counts time for us earthlings in this realm. 120 years repentance time allowed before the flood; 70 years for the Babylonian captivity; 490 years to the appearance of Christ; 40 years wandering in the wilderness, etc. The 2nd appearance of Christ promised to those who saw His first appearance / manifestation was “apart from salvation” – Heb. 9:28.
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I think we agree on this. I do not dispute that God measure all time as “earth time” because He exists in timelessness. The earth was formed in 6 literal earth days as well. However, I’m not sure what you are referring to with your mention of Hebrews 9. From my perspective (9:28), “[Christ…] will appear a second time for salvation without reference to sin, to those who eagerly await Him.” is referring to His “return.” I quote those words because I do not believe that Christ will ever set foot again on earth (Acts 1:11, 1 Thess. 4:17), Rather, we will *step into His Presence upon physical death* (“as a thief in the night”).
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IOW, Christ’s first manifestation in the physical form of a man was for the purpose of salvation. The 2nd time was for salvation from the tribulation of the Sanhedrin & the Roman army. —– Correct. ——
The word “salvation” in Heb. 9:28 is better understood as deliverance out of harm’s way. Christ had already taken care of God’s plan of salvation for mankind when He was crucified. The next coming was the judgment prophesied in Matt. 24, Mark 13, Luke 21, & all of Revelation for the desolation / destruction of Jerusalem & that Mosaic temple. His 2nd appearance was promised to that same generation of the 1st cent. AD, and He kept His promise. As Christ was already ruling at the right hand of the Father after His ascension, then His 2nd appearance was not going to be another physical bodily appearance. The first manifestation was done and done.
—— Again, we’re mostly in agreement. I would just refer you to my comments above regarding Heb. 9:28. ———-
His 2nd appearance was seen in the events that destroyed the Jerusalem temple, birthing the new heavenly Jerusalem and the new spiritual temple out of the old one on earth. The old temple had to be removed, as the old animal sacrificial replacement system – where the animals were the replacement for mankind – had been completely fulfilled by Christ’s once for all sacrifice. That old temple became obsolete (Heb. 8:13). ——— Indeed, it was nailed to the Cross (Col. 2:14). ——–
Pls read The Signs of the Feasts posts at this blog. The Jews had idioms, phrases which they used when speaking of that temple, and the Mosaic covenant which we miss when we are just translating individual words. Idioms carry messages apart from the actual definitions of the words. For instance, the phrase “heaven and earth” to the Jews meant two things: the contract / covenant between God (heaven) and Israel (earth), and the temple where God met with man in Jerusalem. So, when Christ said that “heaven and earth would pass away,” His disciples heard “the temple would pass away”.
———————-
I hope you recognize (I think you do) that 2 Pet. 3:10 is describing the destruction of the *entire material universe*? Allow me to elaborate here.
“[The] day of the Lord will come *like a thief*, in which the heavens [planets, stars, galaxies] will pass away with a roar and the *[subatomic] elements* will be destroyed with intense heat, and *the earth and its works will be burned up*.” As I read this as God bringing the *entire* material universe to an end. Certainly, “the Day of the Lord” has different meanings. One such “obvious day” occurred during the Roman siege, as Revelation (~6-11) describe in gruesome detail.
Here is where we may not be on the same page: People have been promised for thousands of years that they will witness Christ’s return. I have identified over 150 verses to demonstrate that (you probably know all of them). So, has everyone for millennia been misinformed? Were none of them allowed to witness the greatest event in the history of the world? I suggest they *do witness this at death*, as they step into the timeless realm of God.
Note that 2 Peter 3 is describing the destruction of the very elements – atomic particles, that comprise the entire universe. It is, in my opinion, *not* referring merely to the surface of the earth, or some of the atmosphere, or any such thing. (Again, we may be on the same page, and I just don’t realize it.) Remember, God spoke the universe into existence. It doesn’t seem to me that it would be too difficult for a Being with absolute power to “un-speak it” *out of existence*. Thus, the very constituent particles (which are themselves ultimately energy) would be disintegrated to nothing. I think we tend to overlook, or fail to appreciate, our understanding of material reality.
———————-
Another idiom /phrase with special meaning was “no man knows the day or the hour” as the Jews referred to the Feast of Trumpets on the 1st of Tishri since the 1st day of the month had to be declared by the council before the ppl would know when to celebrate it. When Christ told His disciples in Matt. 24:34, “But of that day and hour knoweth no man…” the disciples first word association was to the Feast of Trumpets. Christ was speaking their language, and gave them the clue. The temple was going to be torn down by the 1st of Tishri.
———————-
You may wish to read my article on this subject, unless you already: https://hermeneutics.stackexchange.com/questions/60849/do-we-go-up-or-down-after-being-caught-up-in-1-thessalonians-417/60860#60860
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Our resurrection from the water, being immersed into Christ puts us into eternal life and eternal redemption as long as we continue to walk with Him, and stay faithful unto death. That is why we are changed in a twinkling of an eye when our carnal bodies die. Judgment passes over us – the pass over feast (John 5:24). While we are in this earthly carnal realm we are His ambassadors, priests and kings on this earth. Once we leave this realm, & are changed into our immortal bodies for the next realm, well… what will time matter then? We will have all the time we will ever want or need to do whatever God wills us to do. And I long for that with all my heart.
———————–
Here, I would push back a little. Paul’s reference to our being changed in the twinkling of an eye (1 Cor. 15:52) is referring to the moment we transcend this world of space and time to enter the paradise of God (1 Thess. 4:17, etc.). Here, let me quote another passage:
Revelation 20:6 paraphrased: “Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection [baptism into Christ]; over these [Christians], the second death [spiritual death] has no power, but they [Christians] will be priests of God and of Christ [all Christians are priests and royalty: 1 Peter 2:9] and will reign with Him for a thousand years [until Christ’s return].”
I absolutely agree with you that our (first) resurrection is baptism. But our *second* resurrection is standing before Christ in eternal life. And that is what I’ve tried to communicate to so many. Once you understand this concept, hundreds of verse regarding Christ’s return “as a thief in the night” fall into place. Otherwise, hundreds of millions of people have been told about an extraordinary occurrence that they will *never witness* at all.
———————
Xeno
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Xeno, we agree on much. However, the “elements” of 2 Pet. 3:10 are not speaking of the physical Greek elements of earth, wind, fire, and water. They were the elements of worship, of doctrines, and teachings. Please read my post “Frequent Mistakes – Part VI: The End of The World, or?” The Greek word “stoicheion” is key. Also, key is the use of the word “earth” in prophesy as it had local meaning for the land or region the prophet was sent to warn. See my post “Heaven and Earth Have Passed Away”. When we are reading prophesy, the word “earth” is the land or region that is about to be destroyed. So, in 2 Pet. 3:10 the “earth” and all the works therein referred to the Jews, Jerusalem, and their obsolete worship at that obsolete temple.
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Please see my answer to a related question on Quora:
https://www.quora.com/Is-II-Peter-3-10-proof-that-the-rapture-and-the-tribulation-will-not-occur/answer/Bill-Ross-22
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Excellent reference. The OT prophesies are the source for the NT prophesies, and until we understand the language of those prophesies we cannot understand them when we see them again in the NT. Thanks for the link.
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Gina, I would love to have you be a contributor to my Quora “Space.” You could post each and every one of your excellent posts here, there, and you would instantly have many followers. Let me know if you need any help signing up or getting your excellent material posted.
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Well, I would be happy to. Thank you.
I have explored Quora, and logged in with the google email I maintain but do not use. I am not very tech savy, so may need some help to get started. I did find out how to request to be a contributor at your space – but cannot find out how posts are created on Quora.
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Everything on Quora is a question or answer (or sharing a link). So click on “Ask a question” and choose “Ask a question” or “Share a link.” As you start typing a question, it will show you similar existing questions. If you see a similar question, click on it and answer it. If not, create a new question, then answer it.
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Would you please explain why you glossed over the word TOGETHER?
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The author of this post did not gloss over the word together. The perspective is the difference. Keep the 1st audience perspective. Who was Paul speaking to, and when? The Thessalonians in about 60 AD. Before the destruction of Jerusalem, before the temple was torn down. Before Christ opened the gates of Hades and separated out the sheep from the goats (Matt. 25). So, Paul was letting those who remained alive know that when they died they would all be taken up together at that resurrection from Hades. If they remained after the temple was destroyed, then Rev. 14:13 became the process. Today, 2,000 years later, WHERE are we together with them? The scripture says “in the clouds”. When we die, if we are found to be in Christ, then we will be taken up into the clouds in the air to be with those who have already gone before us to heaven. We will be together with them.
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Hi Gina,
Thank you for your response. I will look at Rev. 4&5 again. At present, this is what I see:
– There is one El, and YHWH is His name (Deut. 6:4-9)
– Yeshua (or Yahusha) is a man, the seed of David who became YHWH’s christ/messiah (mashiach* = anointed one or anointed) (Matt. 16:16), who trusted and obeyed YHWH (his and our heavenly Father) even unto death, giving us a great example of what an anointed life (being a son/child of God) should look like.
– The Holy (set-apart) Spirit is the spirit of YHWH.
G4151
pneuma: wind, spirit
Original Word: πνεῦμα, ατος, τό
Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
Transliteration: pneuma
Phonetic Spelling: (pnyoo’-mah)
Definition: wind, spirit
Usage: wind, breath, spirit.
From pneo; a current of air, i.e. Breath (blast) or a breeze; by analogy or figuratively, a spirit, i.e. (human) the rational soul, (by implication) vital principle, mental disposition, etc., or (superhuman) an angel, demon, or (divine) God, Christ’s spirit, the Holy Spirit — ghost, life, spirit(-ual, -ually), ***mind***. Compare psuche.
H7307
ruach: breath, wind, spirit
Original Word: רוּחַ
Part of Speech: Noun Feminine
Transliteration: ruach
Phonetic Spelling: (roo’-akh)
Definition: breath, wind, spirit
I’m still studying about the set-apart Ruach, but a paradigm shifter for me is seeing how it can be translated as “mind”.
Genesis 26:35
HEB: וַתִּהְיֶ֖יןָ מֹ֣רַת ***ר֑וּחַ*** לְיִצְחָ֖ק וּלְרִבְקָֽה׃
KJV: Which were a grief of ***mind*** unto Isaac
INT: brought grief of ***mind*** to Isaac and Rebekah
(See also the Greek definition above.)
*H4899
mashiach: anointed
Original Word: מָשִׁיחַ
Part of Speech: Noun Masculine
Transliteration: mashiach
Phonetic Spelling: (maw-shee’-akh)
Definition: anointed
Here’s another webpage by the same lady (Carrie Wigal) dedicated solely to the the virgin birth (or no virgin birth) doctrine:
http://novirginbirth.com
Yah bless and shalom!
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Kay, regarding the virgin birth of Christ – the idea that Yeshua was JUST a man contradicts scripture. Matt. 1:18-23 makes it very clear that the conception was by the Holy Spirit. That fulfilled the prophesy of both Gen. 3:15 “her seed” and Isa. 7:14. The Jewish women understood this prophesy that a virgin would conceive to bear the promised Messiah as it was “the desire of women” (Dan. 11:37) to which they aspired. Moreover the rabbis expected it. Their understanding of Jer. 31:22 that “a woman would compass a man” meant that the Messiah would have no earthly father and that taught it saying ““The birth of Messiah shall be like the dew of the Lord, as drops upon the grass without the action of man.”
Luke 1:35, “And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.” (KJV)
To deny that Yeshua was that Word that was with God and became flesh to reconcile believing souls to the Father is to deny the scriptures – John 1:1-2; 4: 17:23; 1 John 4:2, 10, 14; Gal. 4:4; Heb. 1:1-3; 2 John 7, etc.
John 8:58, “Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.” (KJV)
Rev. 1:8, ” I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.” (KJV)
Jesus / Yeshua was with God in the beginning (Gen. 1:26). He was / is the Word of God, the Messenger of God, the Angel of the Lord.
Teaching that the Messiah was only a man whom God anointed for a special purpose is contradicting scripture and essentially denying Christ, and calling YHVH a liar. I have not yet read the page you have cited, but it sounds to me as though it may be a back lash against Roman Catholicism. Sometimes, in denying false teachings people tend to throw the baby out with the bath water. Though I can sympathize with that, she needs to be very careful.
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Kay, I have now looked at Carrie Wigal’s arguments against the virgin birth, and she is trying to argue that Joseph was physical father of Christ empowered by the Holy Spirit. However, this is also not possible as Joseph was minded to put Mary away for having “fornicated” before their marriage. So, Joseph was about to deny Mary because she was found to be with child that he did not acknowledge (Matt. 1:18-20). Carrie is wresting the scriptures.
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“And when they had fulfilled all that was written of him, they took him down from the tree, and laid him in a sepulchre. But God raised him from the dead: And he was seen many days of them which came up with him from Galilee to Jerusalem, who are his witnesses unto the people. And we declare unto you glad tidings, how that the promise which was made unto the fathers, God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee. “ (Acts 13:29-33)
The conclusion is obvious — Christ was begotten the day He was resurrected!
YES! This was the day when Jesus became the son of God, NOT God the Son.
Please check out this article…
http://messyanic.com/2015/03/10/the-son-of-god-vs-god-the-son/
And other articles from this website….
http://messyanic.com/2017/03/06/is-the-son-of-man-the-son-of-a-man/
http://messyanic.com/2017/05/13/a-man-in-whom-the-spirit-of-god-is/
http://messyanic.com/2018/05/19/why-the-virgin-birth-matters/
I’m new to your blogsite, Gina, so I’m not sure if you’ve explored/investigated the trinity/virgin birth doctrine. The above blogsite is by a lady who does her due diligence in digging through Scriptures, the same way you do.
I so appreciate the Kingdom work that you’re doing here. HalleluYah!
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Thanks for sharing that web site, Kay. I’ll read more of those articles. I do not believe the Trinity dogma. Christ said that only the Father was good (Matt. 19:17). Yeshua was doing the will of His Father in heaven… He had a job to do, was following instructions. He willingly did that job (John 10:18). So, I see job functions. The Father’s will delegated to the Son – Jesus, and to His Holy Spirit. Both have separate job functions, and both report to the Father. I see a co-reign of Father and Son from the throne room in heaven (Rev. 4, 5). All of which speaks to me of chain of command.
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The “last trumpet” seems to me to be a single “reveille” not multiple.
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So, rez 1 was Jesus, rez 2 was an emptying of Hades in the first century and rez 3 is the immediate translation of each believer when they die?
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Yes. After the judgment at His coming (Matt. 25) in AD 70 all souls have been and are now judged at our bodily deaths.
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So what does Paul mean when he says “then we which are alive will be caught up together with them to greet the arriving Lord as he arrives in the air”? (Obviously my translation, but I believe accurate). When does that occur? IE: Those who will never taste death?
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“Then”… is a time separator. It means after that. We cannot be resurrected without the body dying first. So, resurrection will always be after our bodily death. Then, we are resurrected, changed in a twinkling of an eye to our heavenly body, and taken home…lifted up into the air… to go to heaven to be with all the others who have gone before us. It was not a simultaneous event at the time of His coming in the first century A.D. Those that were left alive after He came back to them in A.D. 70 would live their lives, and at their bodily death would be lifted up. The versions that insert “simultaneously” or “as he arrives” are in error favoring the bias of futurist milennialism. See the post “The Gathering of the Elect” at right margin for more discussion on this.
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Thank you. So how do you deal with “we who are alive and remain” and “shall not taste of (experience at all) death”?
Thanks and have a great day,
Bill Ross http://woundedegomusic.com
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I attempted, I suppose unsuccessfully in the previous reply to mark the distinction of “we who are alive and remain” at His coming from those which had already died (bodily) and from those which were still living when He came. The phrase “shall not taste of death” is from the gospels (Matt. 16:28, Mark 9:1; and Luke 9:27) where Christ was instructing His disciples on their missionary journeys to the other cities of the “lost” tribes of Israel which were outside of Judea and Jerusalem. That He told them they would not die before He returned is a time marker, and it meant that He would come back while some of them were still living in the first century A.D.
We are not still waiting for that event today. Those disciples died a long time ago, but they lived to see His return in the judgment and destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70. Please read Parts I – X of It’s Not The End of The World at the bottom of the right margin. He was speaking to them, not us. We are reading history in the NT. We have to identify the speaker, and who is being spoken to.
That promised coming was His second appearance in that generation (Heb. 9:28) of the 1st century A.D. Paul was telling those who wondered about their loved ones who had already died, and what would happen to them if they were still living when He returned to them. Those that had not yet died at His return in A.D. 70 would continue to live their normal life span. At their death, whenever that would happen, “THEN” they would be lifted into the air to be taken home to heaven to be with all the other saints who had gone before them. That’s all.
It wasn’t a statement about a concurrent rapture of all souls at “THE” judgment. The judgment happened for all those who had already died….were asleep (1 Thess. 4:13, 15) at His return in A.D. 70, and that is when the sheep were separated from the goats (Matt. 25), and the sheep were taken home.
We cannot be resurrected, changed and taken home to heaven until our soul leaves our fleshly body. So, all of those who had not yet died at His coming in A.D. 70 continued to live. As each one died, they were resurrected, changed in the twinkling of an eye and taken home to heaven. “I’ll fly away Oh glory.. I’ll flay away.”
The confusion comes because people have been taught the “THE” judgment has not yet happened. That is a mistake. Christ told them that it would happen at His coming in glory with His kingdom in their lifetimes. Peter told them that the judgment would begin at the house of God (that temple in Jerusalem – 1 Pet. 4:17), and it did in A.D. 70. Judgment changed from the collective / group to the individual judgment after Christ emptied out Hades. He then threw Hades into the lake of fire (Rev. 20:14), so no one goes to Hades anymore when we die. We now go home, if we are in Christ (Rev. 14:13). The previous posts for Part VI of “The Signs of Revelation – The Judgment Day” may be of help.
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So what about “the last trumpet”?:
1 Thess 4:
15According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16**For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.** And so we will be with the Lord forever. 18Therefore encourage one another with these words.
Does each saint, as they die hear see a personal descent accompanied by a personal trumpet blast?
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There was a last trumpet call when Christ returned in A.D. 70, and opened up Hades for the group resurrection and subsequent separation of those souls. However, the implication from 1 Cor. 15 would seem to be that there will be a trumpet for each of us at our death. An excerpt from Kurt Simmons’ Exposition on 1 Cor. chap. 15: “If anything is clear, Daniel placed the resurrection of the dead at the destruction of the Jewish state (Dan. 12:2, 7). Jesus quotes Daniel in John’s gospel, and indicates that the time for fulfillment of that prophecy was near (Jn. 5:25-29). John also ties the resurrection to the fall of Jerusalem in Rev. 11:2, 15-18). You and I obviously were not alive then. Does that mean we will not be changed in a moment in a twinkling of an eye? Not at all. II Cor. 4:16-5:10 makes plain that when our outer man, this physical body dies, we receive a new body, a house from heaven, suitable for inhabiting eternity with Christ above. Thus, the “change” occurs as we die. But if the change occurs when we die, and there is to be a last trumpet heralding our change, then the last trumpet necessarily occurs for each of us at the time of physical death.” See his complete explanation at http://preteristcentral.com/Exposition%20of%20I%20Corinthians%2015.html.
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I put together some of my observations on this matter on my blog, here:
http://bibleshockers.blogspot.com/2017/11/the-everlasting-kingdoms.html
Please note that I don’t currently stand by all of my posts as I continue to learn new things and don’t always go back and fix my errors (my bad). But that post reflects my current understanding.
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I read your post regarding the tenants in the parable. My website is http://www.belmontpublications.co.uk if you would like to have a look. Regards Nigel Johnstone
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Thank you, Nigel. I have visited your site, and read your testimony. Many people flounder because of a lack of the knowledge of God’s word, wanting to know how to be happy, how to live a better life, how to be acceptable to God. But, they do not know the answers because they do not want to take the time to read and study THE BOOK, the Bible. They would rather rely upon someone else to tell them what to do. It does seem to me that the whole earth is floundering because they will not put forth the effort to read God’s word for themselves. Deu. 17:18-20; 31:11; Josh. 8:34; Neh. 8:3; Acts 17:11. How much better would this world be if everyone had that firm ground of His word. I will look at some more of your videos. I hope you will explore more of the posts on this site.
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Absolutely wonderful some of the best of I’ve read in a long time.
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Thanks, Michael. It’s from my dad, a very good student of the Bible.
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Hi Gina. What do you mean by “In the New Testament of the KJV the Greek meaning for “resurrection” is simply a raising up.” Do you mean a levitation? Can you please supply a citation from a Koine Lexicon that tells us that it means a “raising up”? Thanks.
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Jn 6:39 At the Last Trump we will be raised up .G450 ἀνίστημι; anistēmi; an-is’-tay-mee
From G303 and G2476; to stand up (literally or figuratively, transitively or intransitively): – arise, lift up, raise up (again), rise (again), stand up (-right).
G2476 ἵστημι; histēmi; his’-tay-mee
A prolonged form of a primary word στάω staō (of the same meaning, and used for it in certain tenses); to stand (transitively or intransitively), used in various applications (literally or figuratively): – abide, appoint, bring, continue, covenant, establish, hold up, lay, present, set (up), stanch, stand (by, forth, still, up). Compare G5087.
1Th 4:16 The dead in Christ will rise up first. theG3588 deadG3498 inG1722 ChristG5547 shall riseG450 first:G4412
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up G726
G726 ἁρπάζω; harpazō; har-pad’-zo
From a derivative of G138; to seize (in various applications): – catch (away, up), pluck, pull, take (by force).
G138 αἱρέομαι; aihreomai; hahee-reh’-om-ahee
Probably akin to G142; to take for oneself, that is, to prefer. Some of the forms are borrowed from a cognate (ἕλλομαι hellomai), which is otherwise obsolete: – choose. Some of the forms are borrowed from a cognate hellomai, hel-lom-ahee; which is otherwise obsolete.
G142 αἴρω; airō; ah’ee-ro
A primary verb; to lift; by implication to take up or away; figuratively to raise (the voice), keep in suspense (the mind); specifically to sail away (that is, weigh anchor); by Hebraism (compare [H5375]) to expiate sin: – away with, bear (up), carry, lift up, loose, make to doubt, put away, remove, take (away, up).
So we have in English raise up, arise, take up, caught up, bring up. In the Tanakh, we have gather as in Matthew 24:31, bring up ito Jerusalem in Genesis with Moses or just bring up, and take up and take (n).
Deu 24:5 When a man hath taken a new wife, he shall not go out to war (Armageddon on the Day of Atonement), neither shall he be charged with any business: but he shall be free at home one year, and shall cheer up his wife which he hath taken (Day of Trumpet one year before Armageddon). Jhn 6:39, 40, 44, 54; Isa 38:4; Isa 61:1-2; Isa 63:4; Psalms 117-118.
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Hi Gina. Actually, a concordance is not a lexicon. A concordance merely shows you how the KJV translated the word. This is the most respected: https://www.logos.com/product/3878/a-greek-english-lexicon-of-the-new-testament-and-other-early-christian-literature-3rd-ed
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Thank you, WoundedEgo. I did include Thayer’s Greek Lexicon in the references at the bottom.
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Abraham’s birth (1947 BCE) +2017 years = 70 CE (Destruction of the Temple) +1947 years = 2017.
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Bible time lines vary greatly. Abraham’s birth is placed at 1948 or 1946 years after Adam (AA) by the Masoretic texts and the book of Jubilees. Bible History time line places Abraham’s birth 1946 years BC. Dates and years are from the best calculations of fallible men, and cannot be used in place of God’s word. One Messianic Jew told me that the end of the world would be in 3035 AD. These calculations are self-defeating, as they remove the focus from God’s word to a worldly perspective that is not taught in the Bible. Furthermore, why would you be using Abraham as a type of Christ? If anything it would be Isaac, the son whom Abraham was told to sacrifice. Man has invented many of these schemes for calculating an “end of the world” scenario, and all of them have failed. They have failed because God’s word does not speak about the end of the physical world.
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Dan 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
The words in the Tanakh for resurrection are bring up, take up, taken, and gather.
Deut 24:5 has one year, war (Armageddon), and taken.
Matthew 24:31 uses the word gather.
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